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  1. Post
    kierbear wrote:
    Like, it was less than 2 months ago that a Trump supporter attempted to send bombs to what amounts to a hitlist of Trump's enemies, but we all forgot about that.
    There was also that guy(in the coast guard iirc?) planning an attack who only got stopped because of a drug bust. I haven't been forgetting this stuff, it's become a very real danger to society and the US government and law enforcement are...on their side? Just imagine a fascist US as climate change really kicks off because that's the direction we are headed.

  2. Post
    You forget the Battle of Berkeley??

    The Left cannot survive free speech, so they resort to violence. Elected politicians on the Left even claiming that Donald Trump’s supporters deserve it....

    This is a story as old as man himself..

    In April of 1919, one hundred years ago, the anarchist predecessors of the Black Bloc and Antifa sent three dozen dynamite bombs to American officials across the nation. In June of 1920 a hundred-pound dynamite and shrapnel bomb outside J.P. Morgan on Wall Street in New York killed thirty-eight people and maimed over a hundred and forty decent citizens going innocently about their day.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1919...chist_bombings

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wall_Streetombing

  3. Post
    It's cute how you had to go back a century for examples.

  4. Post
    Also his quote doesn't appear to be in either wiki link.

  5. Post
    kierbear wrote:
    It's cute how you had to go back a century for examples.
    That is what one would expect when someone makes the claim that "this is a story as old as...".

    Or did you not read what he wrote?

  6. Post
    s0cks wrote:
    I don't really know where I sit on this subject. There seems to be a rise in people listening to bad ideas (to put it lightly). Trump has invigorated a white nationalist movement, as has Brexit to some degree. There is a rise towards voting in right-wing nationalist governments around the globe. I don't believe this means more people are becoming racist, just that people who were racist now feel safer spouting their prejudice.
    I don't agree with that. I've always observed that politics is like a pendulum, the more you wing the pendulum the more it swings back. A lot of the right wing swing right now relates to peoples unhappiness (justified or not). Say you have left or liberal parties pushing policy out, the centrist parties perceived as not far enough from those parties in policy... so they either move their policy further to the right or lose votes to existing far right parties.

    People send their vote further left right not because they are commies or racist but because they perceive the extreme policies as the only way to get things back to where they like them.

  7. Post
    The Battle of Berkely was 2017. Hardly a stretch in to history.

  8. Post
    DirtySlave wrote:
    The Battle of Berkely was 2017. Hardly a stretch in to history.
    Fine, but if you want to mention students fighting at a university, I'll go ahead and point to one of Milo's supporters shooting somebody at one of his rallies.

    Right wing violence is orders of magnitude worse than left wing violence.

  9. Post
    Vulcan wrote:
    I don't agree with that. I've always observed that politics is like a pendulum, the more you wing the pendulum the more it swings back. A lot of the right wing swing right now relates to peoples unhappiness (justified or not). Say you have left or liberal parties pushing policy out, the centrist parties perceived as not far enough from those parties in policy... so they either move their policy further to the right or lose votes to existing far right parties.

    People send their vote further left right not because they are commies or racist but because they perceive the extreme policies as the only way to get things back to where they like them.
    So you are saying people vote for vile people like Trump and Bolsonaro in an attempt to get back to what exactly? I get the "rebel" vote sure, but there are a lot of people who seemingly support these people (not just vote for them, but actually support them). So why are they supporting them? What is it they are trying to get back? If they don't know, then I would say this fits in with my hypothesis that more people are accepting of bad ideas.

  10. Post
    kierbear wrote:
    Fine, but if you want to mention students fighting at a university, I'll go ahead and point to one of Milo's supporters shooting somebody at one of his rallies.

    Right wing violence is orders of magnitude worse than left wing violence.
    Ok, I believe you are following my logic now. That Milo rally was stormed upon by antifa and other left wing activists.

    They attempted to silence the speech, the talking stopped or was drowned out by the chants to do so, someone got shot... Do you finally follow?

    When the speech is openly suppressed with violence and force, the rage and killing are both unstoppable and deserved. A terrible consequence, but once again, I did not make these rules.

  11. Post
    DirtySlave wrote:

    When the speech is openly suppressed with violence and force, the rage and killing are both unstoppable and deserved. A terrible consequence, but once again, I did not make these rules.
    So... Shooting and killing people who don't want nazi/pedophile apologists to be given a platform, like Milo, is "unstoppable and deserved", am I reading that right?

  12. Post
    kierbear wrote:
    So... Shooting and killing people who don't want nazi/pedophile apologists to be given a platform, like Milo, is "unstoppable and deserved", am I reading that right?
    It's a dark world.

  13. Post
    So again, you're saying people deserve to be shot if they oppose giving nazis and fascists mass-media platforms?

  14. Post
    You bought up the Nazi example....the group doesn't matter. I'm not here to push a political agenda. Human beings ARE consistent animals.

    Speech is suppressed ------->> violence occurs.

    It's not nearly as bad here in NZ, because we don't have the right to bear arms, however they are only for use when speech fails, which I've stated multiple times is when it's suppressed.

  15. Post
    Vulcan wrote:
    That is what one would expect when someone makes the claim that "this is a story as old as...".

    Or did you not read what he wrote?
    At a stroke he admitted it was both inaccurate and irrelevant.

  16. Post
    s0cks wrote:
    So you are saying people vote for vile people like Trump and Bolsonaro in an attempt to get back to what exactly? I get the "rebel" vote sure, but there are a lot of people who seemingly support these people (not just vote for them, but actually support them). So why are they supporting them? What is it they are trying to get back? If they don't know, then I would say this fits in with my hypothesis that more people are accepting of bad ideas.
    The same reason they vote for vile people like clinton. They don't see them as vile. In fact a lot of people in the USA see trump as good (I'm not debating whether he is vile or not, just observing the perceptions over there).

    When you have two options to vote for, and both are 'vile' - you choose the one closest to your political viewpoint.

  17. Post
    kierbear wrote:
    So again, you're saying people deserve to be shot if they oppose giving nazis and fascists mass-media platforms?
    You know the behaviour where you so easily slap the nazi label on others ... well it reminds me of the nazis and fascists behaviour to their "enemies".

  18. Post
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  19. Post
    Don't be silly.

    Only being a white, heterosexual male of European descent denotes automatic Nazi status.


    kierbear wrote:
    So again, you're saying people deserve to be shot if they oppose giving nazis and fascists mass-media platforms?
    Let freedom ring (with a bullet, baby).

    Suppression of freedom of speech is a reprehensible form of anti-intellectualism along the same kind of lines as book-burning. Personally could give two shits if some whiny crybaby Antifa agitators catch some lead by constantly being a bunch of annoying, disruptive dickbags and trying to force people to comply with their own warped mentalities.

  20. Post
    Relevant - https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/a...ectid=12221960
    Certainly the critical importance of deep conversations has been put into sharp focus by the recent heinous event in Christchurch, but deep conversation and the use of robust evidence is not just for crises — it is the critical component of protecting our democracy.

    Conversation on key matters is often hard, requiring discourse across differing but strongly-held values and world views. It can be obscured, it is manipulated and participation is unequal. Yet failure to have effective conversation on difficult matters is an existential threat to all of us.

  21. Post
    Milo hangs out with Richard Spencer (an "American neo-Nazi and white supremacist", https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_B._Spencer) and a bunch of the others in that alt-right group from a couple years ago. The Nazi term probably gets thrown around a bit much, but Milo's definitely on the spectrum. I know, I know, he has a black husband so how could he possibly be, but if there's one thing I'll complement the guy on it's that he is an *excellent* troll and has swaddled himself in some excellent defenses. Meanwhile, the Breitbart email leaks implicate him in gleefully courting a bunch of ethno-nationalist bullshit.

    Aside from Milo, it's astounding to read shit like this:

    Personally could give two shits if some whiny crybaby Antifa agitators catch some lead
    This is a thread about "how we stop the rise of online extremism". It starts with the statement that we hopefully all agree that fascism, white supremacy etc. are bad, and yet we've got people saying "I don't care if anti-fascists get shot" and "people who suppress the speech of Nazis deserve to be shot". You're literally advocating for... fascism.

    The Nazi thing is thrown at too many people, sure, but you're arguing for allowing white supremacists to be given the time, space and amplification to speak. Why? We accept as a society that their ideas are crap, no? Why do we continually have to give them airtime?

    For everyone upset about the supposed impinging on free speech: I hope you note that your outrage is selective. ISIS' various accounts are regularly banned from YouTube and Twitter (because it's an excellent avenue for them to radicalise people), and yet I've never seen any of you upset about the lack of free speech afforded to them or claimed we should be debating them in the marketplace of ideas. Yet, we seem to be concerned about the lack of free speech afforded to supremacists. Why is that?

  22. Post
    frio wrote:
    We accept as a society that their ideas are crap
    I think we need to call out all ideas that go against any Human Rights, regardless.

    Christians versus LBGTs
    Muslims versus Women
    Racists versus Race, Ethnicity
    ...

    The list can go on.

    While I might have many things I dont like about Political Correctness, one thing sticks out that is good. We need to treat every one with the same respect, that we think we deserve as well. And so I will accept Political Correctness to being part of a change in our society for the better long-term.

  23. Post
    frio wrote:
    Milo hangs out with Richard Spencer (an "American neo-Nazi and white supremacist", https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_B._Spencer) and a bunch of the others in that alt-right group from a couple years ago. The Nazi term probably gets thrown around a bit much, but Milo's definitely on the spectrum. I know, I know, he has a black husband so how could he possibly be, but if there's one thing I'll complement the guy on it's that he is an *excellent* troll and has swaddled himself in some excellent defenses. Meanwhile, the Breitbart email leaks implicate him in gleefully courting a bunch of ethno-nationalist bullshit.

    Aside from Milo, it's astounding to read shit like this:



    This is a thread about "how we stop the rise of online extremism". It starts with the statement that we hopefully all agree that fascism, white supremacy etc. are bad, and yet we've got people saying "I don't care if anti-fascists get shot" and "people who suppress the speech of Nazis deserve to be shot". You're literally advocating for... fascism.

    The Nazi thing is thrown at too many people, sure, but you're arguing for allowing white supremacists to be given the time, space and amplification to speak. Why? We accept as a society that their ideas are crap, no? Why do we continually have to give them airtime?

    For everyone upset about the supposed impinging on free speech: I hope you note that your outrage is selective. ISIS' various accounts are regularly banned from YouTube and Twitter (because it's an excellent avenue for them to radicalise people), and yet I've never seen any of you upset about the lack of free speech afforded to them or claimed we should be debating them in the marketplace of ideas. Yet, we seem to be concerned about the lack of free speech afforded to supremacists. Why is that?
    Because these people have racist views, mostly due to western propaganda, and will embrace fascism as the answer to their current problems, and the many, many future problems on the horizon.

  24. Post
    frio wrote:
    This is a thread about "how we stop the rise of online extremism".
    Nothing short of banning Twitter and Tumblr will stop extremists from thinking "deplatforming" is a thing and not just general thuggery. Engaging in debate about Nazi's is counter-productive as this occurs to everything considered "wrongthink" such as TPPA (where they "deplatformed" central Auckland) or just because they don't like the person talking (like John Key constantly was).

  25. Post
    The thread spawned out of the Christchurch shooting thread, in which a white supremacist performed a terrorist act. Engaging in debate about nazis is necessary. TPPA and John Key really aren't on the same scale .