Orcon for Fibre? or other suggestions

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  1. Post
    #1

    Orcon for Fibre? or other suggestions

    just wanting peoples opinions on Orcon and whether their internet connections are reliable.

    I use to be an orcon customer about 10 years ago? and their support was shocking. This forced me off to Xtra at the time.
    Spark seems to be a tad too expensive for the giga plans and I'm just reevaluating my choices.

    Also wanting a lower ping/better routing to the states than Spark.
    A while back I tested my ping from NZ to the game servers I play on and another my republic user was getting 30ms lower ping, after some quick trace route tests, I noticed they had different routing, I raised a case with Spark but it went no where..

    30ms is not a deal breaker for me, but would be a nice to have. I'm more focused on the monthly price now.

  2. Post
    #2
    Like you, ex Orcon customer, customer service was shit, odd issue with DNS resolution and connectivity issues which they had no idea and could not resolve. The issues could last for a day or 2 etc and happened on a weekend as well where there was no one even answering the helpdesk . After 3 weeks i got fed up with their lack of action and understanding and canceled my connection and went with Spark.

  3. Post
    #3
    Orcon still renowned for being terrible, and I would never go back to them. Not sure of the pings results, but have been pretty happy with Spark.

    If you don't want to go with Spark, that's cool, just don't go with Orcon - anyone else.

  4. Post
    #4
    i moved back to Orcon and i have to say there Support still sucks ,telling you things that are not true about modems and services they provide but i seldom ring and the connection has been solid for 3 months , no interruptions to service and the speed is fine on the Gig fibre plan and for 6 months im only paying $49.90 then 6 months at $99 so i will put up with a little more only paying that amount.

  5. Post
    #5
    how does stuff fibre, myrepublic and slingshot compare? it just feels like spark are really charging quite a bit more..

    I assume bigpipe and skinny use the same network as spark? or do they have limited international bandwidth compare to Spark?

  6. Post
    #6
    Bigpipe over 802.11AC 2.4GHz

    Ping: I get 30ms to Telstra Sydney using Speedtest.net (it defaults to Spark which gives me a 3ms ping).
    Service: Barely ever talked to them but never had an issue when I did. I've cancelled and signed up with them in the past and there was no drama.

    Have had awful experiences with Orcon, unsure what they're like now but in the past it was compulsory to call them, and they ****ed around on the phones. Didn't cancel when they said they would, the whole modem rental bullshit, tried to charge me for months extra and reset contract to 12 months if you wanted to make any changes to your plan.

    Seeing as Fibre is set and forget, I imagine it's easier now but I wouldn't ever want to go back to them in case something ever went wrong.

    Also I have a static IP with them which rocks, it's a one-off charge unlike everyone else which bills monthly.

  7. Post
    #7
    Ffs I'm visiting my parents in Welly and they've just got Orcon fibre.
    Thanks really hope they get lucky and have no issues.

  8. Post
    #8
    how does slingshot compare?

  9. Post
    #9
    AstoriaParanoia wrote:
    Ffs I'm visiting my parents in Welly and they've just got Orcon fibre.
    Thanks really hope they get lucky and have no issues.
    Am surprised anyone over 50 even knows any ISP except Spark exists. You must have trained them well.

  10. Post
    #10
    Could Fibre users on 2 Degrees, Slingshot or Bigpipe please trace route this IP? 64.25.39.1

  11. Post
    #11
    Stay away form Orcon. Bigpipe has been good for me.

  12. Post
    #12
    Toolman wrote:
    i moved back to Orcon
    Ban.

  13. Post
    #13
    s4turn wrote:
    Could Fibre users on 2 Degrees, Slingshot or Bigpipe please trace route this IP? 64.25.39.1
    BigPipe over wireless to fibre.
    Name:  a.PNG
Views: 148
Size:  28.7 KB

  14. Post
    #14
    @suntoucher look at your ping to your router (up-to 12ms) - do any testing via Ethernet as WiFi has its own problems.

    As for ISP's I strongly recommend 2degrees or Voyager - they're both great. Voyager have a one-off charge for a Static IP (if required) but in most cases this isn't needed. Both offer IPv6 and 2degrees offers a very good router (AVM Fritz!Box).

    For the above traceroute request - 2degrees:
    traceroute to 64.25.39.1 (64.25.39.1), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets
    1 router (192.168.2.1) 0.416 ms 0.367 ms 0.375 ms
    2 39.7.69.111.static.snap.net.nz (111.69.7.39) 12.483 ms 12.474 ms 12.499 ms
    3 * * *
    4 two-degrees.ear1.losangeles6.level3.net (4.26.2.82) 143.704 ms 144.407 ms 143.587 ms
    5 7-1-10.ear1.losangeles6.level3.net (4.26.2.81) 144.368 ms 143.942 ms 144.639 ms
    6 * * *
    7 * * *
    8 * * *
    9 * * *
    10 * * *
    11 * * *
    12 * * *
    13 * * *
    14 * * *

    Average latency: 170ms

    Voyager (VDSL):
    traceroute to 64.25.39.1 (64.25.39.1), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets
    1 192.168.4.1 (192.168.4.1) 0.731 ms 0.404 ms 0.438 ms
    2 114.23.3.255 (114.23.3.255) 24.744 ms 24.621 ms 24.506 ms
    3 114.23.3.230 (114.23.3.230) 24.399 ms 24.274 ms 24.177 ms
    4 ae-1-0.cr2.mdr.vygr.net (114.23.3.243) 24.326 ms 24.212 ms 24.390 ms
    5 ten-0-7-0-5-396.bdr04.alb01.akl.vocus.net.nz (175.45.93.77) 25.525 ms 25.642 ms 25.536 ms
    6 bundle-11.cor01.alb01.akl.vocus.net.nz (114.31.202.4 150.114 ms 149.878 ms 150.007 ms
    7 bundle-200.cor01.lax01.ca.vocus.net (114.31.202.45) 149.501 ms 149.607 ms 149.739 ms
    8 bundle-101.bdr01.lax01.ca.vocus.net (49.255.255.9) 150.087 ms 150.375 ms 149.848 ms
    9 ae8.cr4-lax2.ip4.gtt.net (173.205.42.33) 149.442 ms 149.775 ms 149.522 ms
    10 xe-0-0-1.cr5-dal3.ip4.gtt.net (89.149.135.146) 181.221 ms 180.936 ms 180.900 ms
    11 * * *
    12 * * *
    13 * * *
    14 * * *
    15 * * *

    Average latency: 180ms

    Please understand - routes are subject to change. The internet isn't perfect. You could go with an ISP with the best latency to a destination and the next day have it turn to crap. A few ms is impossible to notice unless if you stare at the latency within a game - as long as the connection is stable (and you're not using WiFi to game) anything under 200ms is fully playable.

    There are plenty of my posts around on "the other forum" of this subject. I rarely post here, but thought I could add a bit of value. I've written a guide in the past on picking an ISP (https://murfy.nz/2018/02/06/picking-the-right-isp/) which may give you more of an idea also.

    Orcon / Slingshot also have a very stable network - I am not sure why everyone is hating on them. Their routes are decent and their international bandwidth is good also. Since Vocus (the company behind Orcon / Slingshot / Flip) also sell international transit to many other ISP's it is in their best interest to have a fast, stable network. Many problems with them were based off the old router they used to provide which would have its own internal DNS server crash but this was resolved in future firmware versions. The only reason why I never recommend "Vocus" is because of their support but honestly, if you're looking at going with them then go for it. At-least it isn't My Republic...

  15. Post
    #15
    Everyone hates Orcon because of their customer service, Fibre is basically much a muchness these days so it matters not whom actually supplies on the data side, thus pricing and customer service should be current highest priority for an ISP.

    And too much effort to run over cable. Just bin the average latency due to the wireless (8ms or so) from the internet locations.

  16. Post
    #16
    suntoucher wrote:
    Everyone hates Orcon because of their customer service, Fibre is basically much a muchness these days so it matters not whom actually supplies on the data side, thus pricing and customer service should be current highest priority for an ISP.

    And too much effort to run over cable. Just bin the average latency due to the wireless (8ms or so) from the internet locations.
    Sorry but you're incorrect.

    Fibre isn't really a "much a muchness" - it still is highly dependant on your ISP. Take MyRepublic as an example - it is rubbish for gaming as they for starters route all their traffic up to Auckland and second they really don't have the best international bandwidth. They furthermore don't really peer and in the past have had bandwidth issues (and still I often hear complaints about this). There are quite a few things that go together to build an ISP.

    While I agree pricing is a priority, broadband is a low margin product - an ISP is still a business and if the prices are set too cheap they have to cut other elements of their network or customer service to compete. This is why Orcon for example have both a great network but rubbish support. Basically - pick 2: Customer support, Great Network, Cheap Pricing. It is hard to get all 3 and I think 2degrees really comes the closest of filling all buckets here. Voyager on the other hand have both a great network and great customer service but are not the cheapest in some cases (depending on what plan you take up).

    In conclusion - you can't just "pick" an ISP these days. There are providers that are truly rubbish on everything or even hide the fact they're bad by preventing people from talking about them (looking at you Unlimited Internet).

    In regards to WiFi - really, you're sacrificing both Speed and Stability in many cases especially if you're using a consumer grade router. Ethernet will always achieve the best, possible connection and to be perfectly honest can't be replaced with WiFi if you want the best. This is why my house is wired up for Ethernet and I use an enterprise grade access point for WiFi connectivity to my mobile devices / IoT devices. If you're testing either latency or speeds always ensure you're connected via Ethernet otherwise you're just providing flawed results.

  17. Post
    #17
    2 degrees has a $200 credit at the moment and they are a good ISP.

  18. Post
    #18
    michaelmurfy wrote:
    In regards to WiFi - really, you're sacrificing both Speed and Stability in many cases especially if you're using a consumer grade router. Ethernet will always achieve the best, possible connection and to be perfectly honest can't be replaced with WiFi if you want the best. This is why my house is wired up for Ethernet and I use an enterprise grade access point for WiFi connectivity to my mobile devices / IoT devices. If you're testing either latency or speeds always ensure you're connected via Ethernet otherwise you're just providing flawed results.
    Define, "the best"

    Because Ethernet is the worst at convenience and ease of use. How do you connect your phone? Ethernet adapter?

    I have 100mb Fibre, my wireless far exceeds that, and I don't notice the difference in latency. So how is it "the best"? It may be the "highest performing" but "best" is a subjective measure.

    I drive an electric van, my C63 AMG was far faster, but far less convenient and thus was not the best. Can't fit a pallet in the C63.

  19. Post
    #19
    If you want that 30 ms lower ping then your best bet might be an ISP who exclusively uses Vocus for international traffic. So other than MyRepublic that would be the Vocus brands Orcon and Slingshot. Vocus seem to have the most direct route from Auckland to LA and onwards to Dallas TX where that server is located. But as always with this sort of stuff it's not guaranteed and can change over time.

  20. Post
    #20
    slingshot fibre

    Tracing route to 64.25.33-1.ncsoft.com [64.25.39.1]
    over a maximum of 30 hops:

    1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms fritz.box [192.168.178.1]
    2 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms v1.cpcak3-bng1.tranzpeer.net [101.98.0.90]
    3 * * * Request timed out.
    4 2 ms 1 ms 1 ms ae9-20.cpcak-mdr-r1.vocus.co.nz [101.98.5.22]
    5 2 ms 2 ms 2 ms BE-101.bdr02.akl05.akl.VOCUS.net.nz [175.45.102.233]
    6 126 ms 126 ms 126 ms bundle-10.cor01.akl05.akl.vocus.net.nz [114.31.202.100]
    7 127 ms 127 ms 126 ms bundle-200.cor02.lax01.ca.vocus.net [114.31.202.47]
    8 127 ms 126 ms 127 ms bundle-102.bdr02.lax01.ca.vocus.net [49.255.255.15]
    9 125 ms 126 ms 126 ms las-b24-link.telia.net [62.115.153.254]
    10 156 ms 157 ms 157 ms dls-b22-link.telia.net [62.115.118.246]
    11 156 ms 156 ms 156 ms ncsoft-ic-317391-dls-b22.c.telia.net.10.115.62.in-addr.arpa [62.115.10.106]
    12 157 ms 157 ms 157 ms 64.25.32-9.ncsoft.com [64.25.32.9]
    13 157 ms 157 ms 157 ms 64.25.32-26.ncsoft.com [64.25.32.26]
    14 157 ms 157 ms 158 ms 64.25.33-1.ncsoft.com [64.25.39.1]

    Trace complete.

  21. Post
    #21
    s4turn wrote:
    Could Fibre users on 2 Degrees, Slingshot or Bigpipe please trace route this IP? 64.25.39.1
    Bigpipe
    1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.1.1
    2 * * * Request timed out.
    3 * * * Request timed out.
    4 17 ms 17 ms 17 ms ae8-10.akbr6.global-gateway.net.nz [122.56.116.5]
    5 17 ms 17 ms 17 ms ae2-6.tkbr12.global-gateway.net.nz [122.56.127.17]
    6 40 ms 40 ms 40 ms xe1-0-4.sebr3.global-gateway.net.nz [202.50.232.86]
    7 40 ms 40 ms 46 ms 122.56.119.86
    8 41 ms 64 ms 42 ms ae-17.r20.sydnau02.au.bb.gin.ntt.net [103.13.80.121]
    9 192 ms 192 ms * 4.68.73.217
    10 * * 205 ms ae-25-0.ear1.Dallas1.Level3.net [4.69.210.137]
    11 201 ms 201 ms 201 ms 4.59.197.34
    12 196 ms 196 ms 196 ms 64.25.32-9.ncsoft.com [64.25.32.9]
    13 203 ms 202 ms 203 ms 64.25.32-26.ncsoft.com [64.25.32.26]
    14 198 ms 207 ms 198 ms 64.25.33-1.ncsoft.com [64.25.39.1]

  22. Post
    #22
    thanks guys! slingshot seems even better again
    also noted about the ISP changes.

    tbh Spark has been a good ISP to me, its just that there pricing isnt on par with the competitors.
    kind of an extra for me to get a better ping.

  23. Post
    #23
    s4turn wrote:
    thanks guys! slingshot seems even better again
    also noted about the ISP changes.

    tbh Spark has been a good ISP to me, its just that there pricing isnt on par with the competitors.
    kind of an extra for me to get a better ping.
    Have you looked into Skinny? You basically get the same great customer service on the phone for ~$20 cheaper a month than Spark.

    Bigpipe only offers email support which I personally could never live with.


    PS - trace route from a Skinny UFB connection

    Tracing route to 64.25.33-1.ncsoft.com [64.25.39.1]
    over a maximum of 30 hops:

    1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms router.asus.com [192.168.1.1]
    2 * * * Request timed out.
    3 * * * Request timed out.
    4 2 ms 2 ms 2 ms ae8-10.akbr6.global-gateway.net.nz [122.56.116.5]
    5 2 ms 2 ms 2 ms ae2-6.tkbr12.global-gateway.net.nz [122.56.127.17]
    6 25 ms 25 ms 25 ms xe1-0-4.sebr3.global-gateway.net.nz [202.50.232.86]
    7 26 ms 25 ms 25 ms 122.56.119.86
    8 25 ms 25 ms 25 ms ae-17.r20.sydnau02.au.bb.gin.ntt.net [103.13.80.121]
    9 * * 26 ms 4.68.73.217
    10 * * * Request timed out.
    11 188 ms 188 ms 187 ms 4.59.197.34
    12 187 ms 187 ms 188 ms 64.25.32-9.ncsoft.com [64.25.32.9]
    13 189 ms 190 ms 190 ms 64.25.32-26.ncsoft.com [64.25.32.26]
    14 187 ms 185 ms 185 ms 64.25.33-1.ncsoft.com [64.25.39.1]

  24. Post
    #24
    yes looked into skinny, but you have to use their modem.
    Also uses the same routing as Spark, the other ISPs were a bit lower, Slingshot being nearly 30ms lower is quite nice too.

    ive just signed up to slingshot, 2 free months and $99 per month. Im pretty happy with that

  25. Post
    #25
    tehyitz wrote:
    If you want that 30 ms lower ping then your best bet might be an ISP who exclusively uses Vocus for international traffic. So other than MyRepublic that would be the Vocus brands Orcon and Slingshot. Vocus seem to have the most direct route from Auckland to LA and onwards to Dallas TX where that server is located. But as always with this sort of stuff it's not guaranteed and can change over time.
    eh 2 degrees is exactly the same, there isn't a magic 2nd cable that vocus can use. only difference would be in transit once you do get to the US but that's much of a muchness, especially to TX