A thread to discuss how ****ed up America is. (No Posts About The Wall)

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  1. Post
    Thunderstorm wrote:
    Who wanted Trump to withdraw the troops? The answer is very simple, why did americans vote trump into office? reason is because one of trumps key campaign promises was to end the endless wars and bring troops home. Its the US citizens who wanted trump to withdraw the troops because they are tired of being the worlds police. US troops can't stay in Syria for ever. If you want some one to blame for the mess blame Bush, he started the mess in the first place when he invaded Iraq.

    Anyway after a while things will settle down in northern Syria after Turkey has created its safe buffer zone on the border. It would be easier for the The Kurds if they just peacefully withdraw, As for the remaining few ISIS fighters they will just run and hide some where until Asaads or Turkeys forces catches up with them later on down the track. There's no way ISIS has any hope of rebuilding up again to like it was before.
    A) So Turkey just gets to annex part of Syria to establish a safe buffer zone?
    Whats to stop them increasing that buffer zone until Kurdish land is all gone?
    B) Is this the same ISIS that Trump 100% eliminated or a different one?
    Did he just 100% bring ISIS back?

  2. Post
    TatonkaBill wrote:
    Or you know, leave the US troops that were already there so that Turkey doesnt advance on their positions unobstructed.
    So baby Turkey? Why not use diplomatic means ie trade embargo's etc across multiple nations if Turkey is keen to attack why send kids off to possibly die and be mentally messed up for the rest of there lives?

  3. Post
    TatonkaBill wrote:
    A) So Turkey just gets to annex part of Syria to establish a safe buffer zone?
    Whats to stop them increasing that buffer zone until Kurdish land is all gone?
    B) Is this the same ISIS that Trump 100% eliminated or a different one?
    Did he just 100% bring ISIS back?
    The Turkish plan is to create a zone where they will move the 3 million Syrian Arab refugees that have moved into Turkey in the last few years. This “buffer zone from ISIS” is a sham. They are actively doing an ethnic cleanse of the Kurds to repopulate it with Arabs.

  4. Post
    SL1CKSTA wrote:
    So baby Turkey? Why not use diplomatic means ie trade embargo's etc across multiple nations if Turkey is keen to attack why send kids off to possibly die and be mentally messed up for the rest of there lives?
    I agree with Conservative commentator Tom Nichols
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  5. Post
    gneiss wrote:
    I agree with Conservative commentator Tom Nichols
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    I don't because I think warhawks are ****wits

  6. Post
    But the US kept troops there to leverage US influence in peace negotiations to secure US goals. Now they're leaving in disarray & the opposite is happening - Iran & Russia are moving in.

  7. Post
    War is bad and the USA being a defacto global police is bad.

    Having achieved something shaped like peace in a region with the assistance of an ally, abandoning that ally to die and war to reignite is ****ing abominable.

  8. Post
    sorceror wrote:
    if that is true, why is he sending 1000s of troops into saudi arabia?
    Because that's part of another election promise with making a new deal with Iran, its of great necessity to reinforce saudi's oil facilities so as Iran will a lose a bargaining chip, they probably won't be able to attack it again. its also necessary for the global oil economy, I not sure about you but I wouldn't want to see higher prices at the petrol pump.

    gneiss wrote:
    The Turkish plan is to create a zone where they will move the 3 million Syrian Arab refugees that have moved into Turkey in the last few years. This “buffer zone from ISIS” is a sham. They are actively doing an ethnic cleanse of the Kurds to repopulate it with Arabs.
    beyond creating a safe zone I really can't see Turkey completely wiping out all the Kurds, because they will be totally condemned internationally, plus also the Kurds have now allied with Asaad and the Syrian army is heading north, If Turkey pushes to far into Syria they risk fighting the Syrian army and if this happens Asaad's ally Putin will probably intervene.

  9. Post
    Thunderstorm wrote:
    Because that's part of another election promise with making a new deal with Iran, its of great necessity to reinforce saudi's oil facilities so as Iran will a lose a bargaining chip, they probably won't be able to attack it again. its also necessary for the global oil economy, I not sure about you but I wouldn't want to see higher prices at the petrol pump.
    beyond creating a safe zone I really can't see Turkey completely wiping out all the Kurds, because they will be totally condemned internationally, plus also the Kurds have now allied with Asaad and the Syrian army is heading north, If Turkey pushes to far into Syria they risk fighting the Syrian army and if this happens Asaad's ally Putin will probably intervene.
    Huh?

    That's a novel way of looking at it.

  10. Post
    gneiss wrote:
    But the US kept troops there to leverage US influence in peace negotiations to secure US goals. Now they're leaving in disarray & the opposite is happening - Iran & Russia are moving in.
    frio wrote:
    War is bad and the USA being a defacto global police is bad.

    Having achieved something shaped like peace in a region with the assistance of an ally, abandoning that ally to die and war to reignite is ****ing abominable.
    Its not the United States problem this should be a global thing that we negotiate, if it takes troops in the area to deter Turkey from getting bored and committing genocide realistically how much of an ally are they?

  11. Post
    The geo politics also doesn't seem to make sense why would it be in Russia's interest to have Turkey invade and bomb there other ally Syria?

  12. Post
    It is a United States problem, it's a massive tactical error which was caused by a move ordered by Donald J Trump himself (or should I say Putin on his birthday).

    Turkey in the past has been an ally of the United States, however since dictator Erdogan came to be the leader it's been obvious the country has gone off the rails. I'm sure the majority of US Intelligence also knows this too.

  13. Post
    Dans wrote:
    It is a United States problem, it's a massive tactical error which was caused by a move ordered by Donald J Trump himself (or should I say Putin on his birthday).

    Turkey in the past has been an ally of the United States, however since dictator Erdogan came to be the leader it's been obvious the country has gone off the rails. I'm sure the majority of US Intelligence also knows this too.
    Why is it in Russias interest to have Syria moved in on by the Turks?

  14. Post
    SL1CKSTA wrote:
    Why is it in Russias interest to have Syria moved in on by the Turks?
    exactly they just don't get eh, same with ISIS, the reason ISIS thrived before was because Assad was to busy fighting the rebels, that is no longer the case so Assad can easily prevent ISIS from rising its head again. US troops is no longer needed in the country.

  15. Post
    SL1CKSTA wrote:
    Why is it in Russias interest to have Syria moved in on by the Turks?
    It’s in Russia’s interest to have the USA gone and a fractured NATO alliance. Think bigger.

  16. Post
    Because they have far more sway of Turkey than they do over the US. The military power isn't even comparable.

    Russia has many new oil and gas contracts in the area they'll be looking to make the most of. It's all covered in a number of news articles circulating at the moment: https://edition.cnn.com/2019/10/09/w...ntl/index.html

  17. Post
    gneiss wrote:
    It’s in Russia’s interest to have the USA gone and a fractured NATO alliance. Think bigger.
    Dans wrote:
    Because they have far more sway of Turkey than they do over the US. The military power isn't even comparable.

    Russia has many new oil and gas contracts in the area they'll be looking to make the most of. It's all covered in a number of news articles circulating at the moment: https://edition.cnn.com/2019/10/09/w...ntl/index.html
    Baring genesis conspiracy theory.

    This seems to read more like Russia is stuck in the middle:

    "Would Russia support a Turkish invasion?
    Turkey plans to enter Syria and drive back Kurdish fighters from a large swathe of land near the border. While Turkey has become an ever more important partner for Russia both in Syria and on the international political stage, Russia does not appear to endorse Turkey's announced military operations.
    The reason for this simple: As an ally of the Assad government, Russia's stated goal is winning back all of Syria's territory from rebels and pro-US forces, and Turkey's cross-border operation could become a longer-term breach of territorial sovereignty.
    On Wednesday, Damascus blasted Turkey's announcement that it wants to move troops into Syria. "The aggressive behavior of the Erdogan regime clearly shows the Turkish expansionist ambitions in the territory of the Syrian Arab Republic and cannot be justified under any pretext," a statement from Syria's foreign ministry said.
    But Russia is also keen to cater to its Turkish allies, and has offered to negotiate with all sides for a solution. "We are in touch with both the representatives of the Kurdish side and the representatives of the government, and we are encouraging them to start a dialogue to resolve the problems of this part of Syria, including the problems of ensuring security on the Turkish-Syrian border," Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said."

  18. Post
    Syrian forces has just recently entered a Kurdish held area to halt Turkeys advancement, a deal brokered by Russia, The Kurds are safe.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...ed-deal-kurds/

  19. Post
    sorceror wrote:
    if that is true, why is he sending 1000s of troops into saudi arabia?
    How does this question not just instantly destroy any notion that trump is doing any of this to get US soldiers out of the middle east

  20. Post
    Thunderstorm wrote:
    Syrian forces has just recently entered a Kurdish held area to halt Turkeys advancement, a deal brokered by Russia, The Kurds are safe.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...ed-deal-kurds/
    The Kurds fought against the Assad regime and forced them out of the area near the beginning to the civil war. The US went in to support them as Assad was the enemy and the US wanted him out. Russia stepped in to support Assad. The Syrian Govt. regime and Russia are not natural allies of the Kurds, and to think that they are now safe shows yet more of your ignorance. They may be safer from the Turkish invasion, but they are by no means safe. The US was maintaining relative peace and stability in the whole region just by having 1000 troops on the ground. They weren’t there as a fighting force for the last several years.

  21. Post
    This thread is doing my f**king head in!

  22. Post
    Republican Senate leader McConnell’s new warning on Syria: “Abandoning this fight now and withdrawing U.S. forces from Syria would recreate the very conditions that we have worked hard to destroy and invite the resurgence of ISIS. And such a withdrawal would also create a broader power vacuum in Syria”
    McConnell adds that the power vacuum “will be exploited by Iran and Russia, a catastrophic outcome for the United States’ strategic interests.”

  23. Post
    Haha I just saw this on reddit.
    Battling to do this on my phone so hopefully the link works.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/gifs/commen...m_source=share

  24. Post
    ^ Link works. And that's f**king atrocious reporting.

  25. Post
    Thunderstorm wrote:
    Who wanted Trump to withdraw the troops? The answer is very simple, why did americans vote trump into office? reason is because one of trumps key campaign promises was to end the endless wars and bring troops home. Its the US citizens who wanted trump to withdraw the troops because they are tired of being the worlds police. US troops can't stay in Syria for ever. If you want some one to blame for the mess blame Bush, he started the mess in the first place when he invaded Iraq.

    Anyway after a while things will settle down in northern Syria after Turkey has created its safe buffer zone on the border. It would be easier for the The Kurds if they just peacefully withdraw, As for the remaining few ISIS fighters they will just run and hide some where until Asaads or Turkeys forces catches up with them later on down the track. There's no way ISIS has any hope of rebuilding up again to like it was before.
    Holy shit